Words by Jessica Gysel
Portraits by Sophie Mörner
Edwige is a jack-of-many-trades: ex-actress,ex-model, ex-singer, ex-junkie, ex-cabare-tière, Hindu devotee, flower arranger and décor stylist extraordinaire - but above all - a very glamorous lesbian and cult icon. She's been a French exile since the late 70s; a New Yorker ever since. I caught up with her in Amsterdam when she was in town to style an event for Smirnoff Vodka. We sat in the cocktail lounge of the Hotel Okura where the event took place. In between rearranging bouquets and sipping champagne, she shared the most fabulous stories. And every few sentences, she talked about dressing and undressing girls... even at the grand age of half-a-century!
Edwige: I love Bettina Köster's interview in GLU. I hadn't seen her for a while but I recently had dinner with her. My God, when I first met her in ‘77 I was so nervous! And so was she. But you know, me being French, coming to America...
I didn't want to be with a German. Life takes you to different places, you know. It was never the time for it, I guess. We're good friends but we were never lovers. I was like: ‘Ah that girl is so beautiful!'
Jessica: She still is... and so are you.
We're the same age. I just turned 50 and it's quite hard. I don't wanna drink so much anymore - because I've drunk and done drugs all my life. I think back in the 70s it was OK to be wasted. I saw Nico perform on heroin. Like mmmmuuuuhhrrrhuhhhhmmmmm, falling asleep or nodding off onstage. I saw Marianne Faithfull fucked up onstage. I was fucked up onstage: sometimes I couldn't even speak. And now I think it's awful and ugly. It's OK if you're Sid Vicious in a punk rock band, but I think Nico and Marianne were more sophisticated than that. And it's OK to have a little bit of an edge when you're young, but at one point... Well, I wanna get better; that's my goal.
When did you decide on that?
A few years ago, in my mid-forties. But I've been working on it for a long time, haha. It's quite hard!
I think you've turned out pretty OK.
Yeah, but I'm from the generation just before crack came onto the scene. I was a heroin addict - although I never called myself a junkie because I wanted to perform. I was in the public eye in the 80s, making lots of money, showing off, going to new clubs... Actually, most of my friends from that era are still fabulous today. Or dead. No-one is a crackhead lost on the streets. But I have to admit I did go to a Hindu Ashram at one point.
When did you go there?
In 1987. I was really in a bad state because of the heroin. Not so much because of the heroin itself, but from trying to get off it. The withdrawal - with its physical and emotional pain - was impossible. I went though a terrible depression and then, unfortunately, I ran into this guy who I used to model with and he turned me onto intravenous cocaine. In six months, I had almost killed myself. I did heroin for 13 years and felt on top of the world. The minute I did this other drug, I was lost. I weighed just 40 kilos. Because it's so much more addictive, you want it every 20 minutes. Heroin, you just do every now and then and you're fine. Cocaine really is the devil. Then, at one point, one of my friends said: ‘Why don't you go to this Hindu Ashram in upstate NY and do yoga and meditation, get back to your old self?' So I went for four days... and I stayed four years. I guess I liked it, haha.
Do you still do yoga?
Yeah, I still practice it. I even became a yoga teacher, learning everything about nutrition.
I also learned Sanskrit. It was all very spiritual.
And after that you went back to the real world?
Yeah, that was a complete slap in the face.
I was doing a headstand when the phone rang. The caller had phoned the Ashram and asked for Edwige but, at first, nobody knew who that was. You see, I went under the Hindu name of Lalita - not Lolita - who was the goddess of beauty and seduction. She had six arms and in one of her hands she has a drink in what looks like a Martini glass; it's the nectar of the Gods. I think I got this name because she bore all the addictions I'd been through. Anyways, it turned out to be the French designer Thierry Mugler on the phone. He was putting on a retrospective fashion show in Paris and really wanted me to be there, so offered to fly me over. That was in 1991. My passport had expired and I had no money but I had this friend at the Ashram, Lisa Webster, who lent me some money. She later became my girlfriend, though at the time we only had a spiritual relationship - and to this day she's still my best friend - and the best thing that ever happened to me. So, off I went to Paris. Once I was there, however, I was right back where I left off.
So you never went back to the Ashram?
I did, but also not really. When I got to Paris, I was completely vegetarian; I have been for over 10 years. I didn't drink, didn't smoke - I still don't smoke. However, the drinking slowly started again... a little champagne here, a little champagne there. Then I went back to New York and returned to my old life.
Tell me a bit about your past. You grew up in Paris?
I did.
Are your parents still there?
My father is dead but my mom still lives there. She had me when she was 16 but I was actually adopted by my grandparents; they always told me that my mother was my sister. Only when I turned 18, they told me what the real situation was.
Was your mother a teenage mom then?
Yes and she's a lesbian. She's fabulous! She looks so cool... very butch-chic, very much like 50-60-70s kind of dykes - dressed in Yves Saint Laurent suits and tuxedos. Gorgeous! Though I always say she's gorgeous because I was so in love with her when I was a kid. I actually look like her. She used to run a famous lesbian cabaret called ‘Chez Moune' in rue de Pigalle.
So, did she come into your life and disappear again?
No, she's always been in my life and after I was told that she was my mother, instead of my sister, I had a sort of ‘friend relationship' with her - and her girlfriend. She was practically married. She had a ‘lady friend' for 25 years who ended up dying of cancer. I was the only person who could be there for her when she died. She's really from a different generation; very closeted.
But you never knew your dad?
No, I met him once when I was 11-years-old. He was an Irishman, lived on a boat and was an art thief, so that made him kind of romantic. He would go to a museum, take a painting and walk out - like they did in the 60s, you know? There was no security: you could just take, say, the Mona Lisa and walk out, haha. But, supposedly, he never took the really famous ones. He would then sell the stolen paintings to buyers in all these Arabic countries. He commited suicide when I was 12.
Did he have a bad conscience?
No, he got busted and didn't feel like spending time in jail. He was like: ‘I'm a free man!' But I didn't grow up with him. I had a totally normal childhood with my grandparents, thinking they were my parents. I went to a boarding school in a French convent in the Alps and would go home to Paris once a month where my grandparents had a boulangerie, a pastries and bakery store. I had five sisters who were much older than me, but I would spend a lot of time with my mom/sister - literally in her closet, smelling her clothes. I was very much enchanted by her and I still wear her perfume. It's an old Guerlain perfume; a men's cologne. You're not allowed to say which one! And my mom used to wear these really soft leather jackets. She looked so suave and cool. And her girlfriends were always very girlie and pretty. She had one who was like a prostitute and she was so pretty. Her name was Chaton. And then my mom's wife was this real French lady: she used to be straight, was married, had two kids, and was like Catherine Deneuve, but with red hair. It was all quite daring in those days.
Are you like her? Do you have long relationships, fancy pretty women?
I love pretty women but... you know, I'm a serious kinda girl, in a strange kind of way... I consider all relationships serious because throughout my life, everyone I've met - even if it just lasted six months - was kind of a stepping-stone in my journey. So, I still find everything serious and important... I could make a list and it would come to 25 relationships. Well, maybe I'm exaggerating a little... perhaps 10.
Tell me more!
When I was about 19, I met Patti Hansen. She was this huge supermodel and I was a shy, up-and-coming punk rocker. We fell in love and that was a very serious six months in my life. I'm not gonna claim that she was my girlfriend or anything, but that relationship - in that short period of time - was extremely important because it opened my eyes to certain things. She's been happily married to Keith Richards for almost 25 years and has two daughters. You know, Loulou de la Falaise is one of the people I've been the most in love with my whole life. But I should explain, she's not a lesbian - and I didn't know I was at the time. She's somebody that completely blew my mind with her talent and her heart and her ability to be with people.
I wanted to be just like her, you know. Even now when I think of her, I'm like, ‘Oh, my God, what a fantastic person!'
Are you still in touch with her?
No, not really. But I know that if I went back to Paris, I could look her up. Life moves on, though.
And what happened to your friend Maripol?
Oh Maripol! She's my sister! She used to take polaroids of people back in the 80s and still makes books about these, and designs stuff. She's kind of an art curator and just did this amazing 80s retrospective with Agnès b. in Paris, Tokyo, New York, Los Angeles and Hong Kong. She also produced a movie in the 80s called Downtown 81 which became a kinda cult film.
She used to be a designer for Fiorucci, right?
She wasn't actually a designer for Fiorucci: she designed her own little accessories collection from rubbish she would find on New York streets and turn it into jewellery.
Was she responsible for Madonna's look... or not?
Yeah, she designed Madonna's look for Like a Virgin. She's so cool, you know. She's my age and has a beautiful son who is about 18-years-old, and Madonna is his godmother; I'm his other godmother. She's like a sister to me and someone who I think will always be in my life.
Do you know Madonna?
Yeah, I knew Madonna in the early days ‘cause we were in the same New York scene.
But are you in touch with her now?
No. The thing is, I was in contact with a lot of people who later became very famous - like Sade. She's someone else in my life who is one of my biggest loves. But with me being in New York and her living in London... Well, we stayed in touch for a short time but then she became this huge star all of a sudden and then who am I, you know?
Did you ever have a relationship with her?
We did. A kind of a fairytale relationship actually...
Really?
We first met in New York around 1983. I was running a small vintage shop that was owned by some Japanese friends of mine, and she came into the store. I was playing Billie Holiday on my little cassette player, and it was like ‘a moment'. Billie Holiday singing in the background - I still remember exactly which song it was - and then I hear this voice that says, ‘Hello, how much for these shoes?' My head went up; my heart fell to the floor. I was freakin' out, I was like: ‘15 dollars.' It was such a banal moment. I just fell completely and madly in love - and I think she kind of fell in love with me too, in this completely romantic 19th-century way. I was like, ‘Who is that person, and how can I get that person into my life?'
And what happened after that?
She was in New York to do a concert with her band Pride at Dancetaria, where I worked as a bartender. A good friend of mine, Rhonda, was the manager there and also happened to be one of Sade's best friends. After coming into the shop, Sade had gone back to a little coffeeshop across the street to meet her band and Rhonda - and then she brought them all back to the shop 15 minutes later. She was like, ‘Hi. I told you I would come back.' And I'm like Yes! I was so excited. And then my friend Rhonda said, ‘This is Edwige who works at Dancetaria.' And from that moment on, we hung out every day...
So one thing lead to another?
Yeah, and we had this very romantic relationship. The thing is though, it's difficult for me to talk about things like this. You know, it shouldn't be reduced to gossip: it was real. And time flies and life is different now. But we had the sweetest taboo.
Did she write that song for you?
No comment! But then again, having relationships with girls is not always a lesbian thing. When I met Sade, I was so in love with her. And
I knew she was too - but she was also in love with her boyfriend. And I loved him too; I respected their relationship. It wasn't like: ‘Oh yeah, I just wanna fuck her.' Not at all. It was like discovering people who are like you and are open and amazing and... You know her boyfriend was like... ah, I was so in love with him too 'cause he was just the perfect guy. Then we all loved each other. It was that kind of thing.
Did you ever meet the top model, Gia Carangi?
Yeah, I met her a couple of times, but she wasn't very nice.
No? Maybe you were too similar.
I know! And maybe that's why. Although, she was this Italian-looking black-haired girl and I was more of a bleached-blonde, short-haired girl. I also didn't speak English very well, so it might have been the language barrier.
Tell me a bit more about Patti Hansen...
At the time, Patti was this huge supermodel. She was on the cover of Vogue, shot by Helmut Newton. My meeting with her, my meeting with Helmut... we just fell in love with each other and connected right away. Patti and I went on to explore our sexuality and became lovers; and with Helmut our relationship over the years flourished through photography. I mean, I was still taking photos with Helmut in the late 80s. My first picture with Helmut Newton was in ‘76, when I was 19. The connection with Loulou de la Falaise and Yves Saint Laurent was also the same. Patti and Loulou were straight women who were just open enough... they were not that straight. But not in the gay/lesbian sense, rather in the sense of human beings discovering someone who's amazing and who you wanna share your journey with. I once had sex with Grace Jones in the bathroom of a club in Paris, but that was purely physical and wild. It was awesome and we've managed to stay friends throughout the years - with fond memories of that period, haha.
And how was it to meet Andy Warhol?
That's a sweet story. He was in Paris, in ‘76 or ‘77 to do an exhibition at this gallery. So all of
us - Pierre et Gilles and every little artist/musician from our scene - went to the opening because, of course, it was free wine and stuff... And I had this look going on: a bleached-blonde crew cut - with the roots showing - and a big round face with big red lips! I really looked like a younger, less fucked-up version of Edie Sedgwick. I had gone to a photobooth to take a picture of myself which I had signed ‘For Andy, with love Edwige'. At the art opening, he was sitting at a table signing t-shirts, papers, photos, butts, backs, arms, hands and foreheads... When it was my turn, he looked at me and all of a sudden, his eyes opened wide and he said, ‘Hi! How are you? Whats your name?' And I said, ‘My name is Edwige.' And I handed him my picture, saying, ‘I just wanted to give you this.' I didn't want his autograph. And he said, ‘Well, thank you.' And then I walked off. After that, we did a cover photo for Façade magazine and he was wearing a button with me on it.
That's so funny. So he made a button out of your photo?
Someone made a button out of that photo,
I don't know if it was him. He would wear it all the time...
So you met him later?
Yeah, of course. He was a good friend of Patti Hansen and he was very excited about the fact that Patti and I were in love so he gave us the keys to his house in Paris: we could go there whenever we wanted, which was really nice. And then, after that, he flew me to New York because Patti went back to there and I was so in love and wanted so badly to come to New York. So, Andy bought me the ticket for my first ever visit there.
That's sweet, did he put you on Concorde?
No, no... Concorde didn't exist then! I did fly on Concorde years later but that was in the 80s. No, this was winter, 1977. So, Andy flew me to New York and that's when I met Maripol again. I'd met her in Paris, but we'd lost touch. She was living with this photographer Edo who used to work with Andy for Interview. So all of a sudden, I'm back with Andy. Actually, one time I was at the Factory when two schoolbuses of teenage kids were visiting from some town in America. I was just standing there, and again, don't really speak English. I'm French, 20-years-old, have just arrived from Paris and Andy introduced me to this huge group of kids as ‘Edwige - the lesbian visiting from Paris'. This is mentioned in The Diaries. And that was... in those days, I don't know, I didn't use the word lesbian, ‘cause I really didn't know I was a lesbian. I was in love with girls; girls were in love with me - and whatever, that was my life. Even though my generation was all about being gay, it wasn't like ‘faggot', ‘lesbian', ‘homosexual'. The word was ‘gay' - we were happy; it was awesome. Andy was not a man of many words but we felt good together. And maybe because I looked like a little boy it was better for him? I know that his lovers were always androgynous boys. We were comfortable together ‘cause I never felt like a groupie and because he always took good care of me and I just did my own stuff.
What happened to your music career? I know about Mathématiques Modernes, the no wave post-punk band you had in Paris.
Yeah, but when I moved to New York, I met the best musician in the world - to me at least - Robert Arron. He was a stage and tour musician for David Bowie and Paul Simon, mostly playing saxophone and flute. He also had his own band. One day he started playing Smoke Gets in Your Eyes on the piano and I started singing along. He loved my voice and so we ended up performing together and I became a cabaret singer. We went from club to club in New York. I even started a club called The Beat Cocktail Lounge, so we played there a lot.
Really? I didn't know that!
You didn't know that?
No, I never want to research my interview subjects too much.
Come on, you're meeting someone who's like 50-and-a-half-years-old. I'm sorry, I have to massage my legs a bit. They are really painful.
So actually, you had like 20.000 different careers?
Yeah...
What kind of music are you listening to right now?
Besides my favourite Brazilian classics, Nina Simone and some old favourites - and a French band I adore named Colder - thank God I have great friends who are fantastic DJs and send me new stuff, as well as old stuff. Most of the time I don't entirely know who is who, but there's a lot of European lounge music that I really love. I totally adore Amy Winehouse. She's like a slap in the face, a punk Billie Holiday - really cool. There's a lot of ballad-style French bands too that I really love, like Atour de Lucie. I also have a couple of friends on MySpace who send me stuff all the time which is really cool. There's also this Brazilian band called CSS I listen to. I like having new blood from all different genres: you listen to CSS and it's different to Autour de Lucie, who's different to Amy Winehouse. My whole life has always been like this. The one thing that I've never connected with though is techno. It's just too cold and too fast for me; I kind of compare it to drugs. I like the moody, heavy, intense kind of stuff, more than the get-out-of-my-head speedy stuff. I like to feel - painful as it can get. And it doesn't hurt all the time. This kind of music also puts you in a kind of lovely, light mood to arrange flowers, the garden, whatever.
How did you end up getting into arranging flowers?
As usual, it happened one step at a time. In the 90s, I hosted three club nights - Life, The Tunnel and Beige - and it was really tough. I was also back on coke and alcohol so it all just became too much. I wouldn't come home sometimes, which wasn't nice for my girlfriend. When I was turning 40, I really wanted to do something else. So I knew this guy from Beige who did production and décor for big events like fashion shows and weddings. I'm a very handy person so he offered me a job. I was paid next to nothing, like $20 an hour whereas normally I'd get around $1000 a night, so that was quite a transition. But I really wanted to do it. I also knew this other woman, Annette, who did a lot of work for Susanne Bartsch and Henri Bendel. So I helped her dressing windows. I made $12 an hour, before tax - so that's like $8 an hour! I did this for almost a year - and I learnt a lot. That was 10 years ago. I learnt a lot about drapes and then I gradually moved onto flowers. It's exhausting - but I love it! Though really, my legs... I'm on a ladder all the time, bent forward. And my back! And my hands, with them being in cold water all the time! It's almost as good as shooting up, though. These are different ways to get high - and this is a great high.
Do you still go out a lot?
No. I try to be more cultured these days; go to museums and stuff like that. I try... that doesn't mean I do. It's more my goal... in my ‘old age'.
I read a lot though...
Do you have a girlfriend at the moment?
Yes, for six years now. Her name is Juliejo and she's 40. We live together in Fort Greene, Brooklyn, in a beautiful brownstone building which is kind of like those little houses you have in Amsterdam. These two gay friends of ours bought this place. They live downstairs with the garden; Juliejo and I took the two upper floors. Recently, we created a showroom for my best friend Fifi Chachnil, a lingerie designer from Paris, in our house.
So, what are your ambitions now? You say you're busy with flowers and décor. Do you wanna go on with that or do you wanna do something else?
At the moment, I'm working with my girlfriend, helping her out as a set dresser. She's an amazing production designer who designs sets for TV programmes, commercials and music videos. I arrange how everything looks best in the room. But the thing is, you know: my life was really exhausting. I loved every second of it but now I'm really tired. I would love to just be a housewife. You know, it's fair enough: my girlfriend is 10 years younger than me and her career is booming. I could just stay at home and organise the business from there. I would love to write. In fact, I'd love to write my life story.
You should!
I would love to put all my photos together and make some kind of coffee table book - you know, archive everything - and include fun short stories. I would then feel that my life wasn't totally in vain - or vain. Both. That it wasn't just about going out partying or taking photos. I have piles and piles of stuff. It would be kind of interesting - not just on a personal level, but also to show the passing of time and what that era was really like. I'd also love to buy old houses, renovate them and then sell them for a good price, haha. And I also take care of my friend Fifi Chachnil's lingerie company in New York. So, I dress sets and I undress girls! There was an article in
Women's Wear Daily about three months ago where Fifi said, ‘You can come to Brooklyn for a private fitting with Edwige.' And I was like, ‘Oh my God - my dream's come true! I can undress girls and then put bras and panties on them. It's the best job ever!' I don't know if I told but all last week, Julie and I were redecorating the apartment of Miss Universe, Miss USA, and Miss Teen USA.
OK...
They are so cute! Miss Universe is Japanese and gorgeous. And Miss Teen USA, well, she's a teenager - so I'm not allowed to say anything or I'll go to jail!
Do they all live in New York?
Yeah, believe it or not, the Miss USA organization is run by Donald Trump, so they all live in one of his buildings as roommates. We were doing a reality show on the three of them living together.
That's funny.
That's hot! It was actually really cool because, as it was just the three of them, we really made their rooms really girly girly, chic and elegant - and it was fun! Plus, the girls loved it; it's gonna be their home, not just a set.
Do they have teddy bears in their rooms?
No they don't - not at all. Because Miss Universe is Japanese, she likes things to be very minimalist - even her closet is! That was really amazing... I was inside the closet, heehee. Miss Teen USA is only 17 so she had more cute things; while Miss USA, wants to be a TV journalist, so she was more serious. They're all cool girls.
Bettina Köster told me you have some good Studio 54 stories, such as you having sex with Bianca Jagger?
I didn't have sex with her, I just kissed her. But I did have sex with a lot of people back then.
I was very promiscuous.
Your life really could be a book...
I know. And there are a lot more things I haven't even started talking about...